Hikaru Yuy (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
omaewokorosu) wrote2024-09-04 03:40 pm
omaewokorosu) wrote2024-09-04 03:40 pm
I HAVE BEEN REACTIVATED LIKE A SLEEPER AGENT to talk about Marth
So I was reading, for old time sake (as well as to add onto old !emblanon entries I made years ago) Emblanon... And I stumbled upon this comment thread about Marth in FE12. So you don't have to click the original thread (unless you want to, I can't exactly stop anyone from doing so), I'll just quote the question here:
Definitely the "PTSD" kind of issue-problem, yeah.
The first comment quotes a fan translation of FE12's prologue:
Now if you remember me from...the days where I was active in Archanea (and how much I disliked FE12 because of the whole MyUnit thing), you'll maybe remember how much ire this exchange between Elice and Chris (MU) brought me. It is a very, VERY literal translation from Japanese, and thus hasn't gone through any sort of "localisation process" like the official releases have. Taking this as it is, it makes Marth out to be some guy who can't function and acts like a child. That he can't handle reality as it is presented. Sounds like he can't handle being the commander of his own kingdom's military, let alone be king.
Elice brings up that this "child" (the literal translation - if this were to be officially translated it would probably be changed to something closer to the meaning they're trying to convey, like "someone who is so young/too young to go through this sort of thing") wants to save everyone, that is his deepest wish. That he can't handle all too well whenever one of his own falls in battle, but he is able to keep himself in check enough to not, I guess, burst into tears and have some kind of breakdown...?
I can't really get a handle on what Elice's tone is supposed to be here. Informative? A cautionary tale? It's almost like she's talking down when it comes to Marth. Marth is so young, too young in some aspects, to have gone through all of the shit that he's gone through and it's not beyond the pale to see Marth having difficulties in coming to terms with everything and everyone he's lost during the first war.
It's realistic that Marth would struggle with all of this. The fact that he was betrayed by a close ally, his kingdom was invaded and completely overrun, his father was killed in battle and his mother taken prisoner (to be killed in a violent manner later), and his sister was kidnapped by Gharnef to be used to resurrect the Shadow Dragon Medeus. And that's just the prologue for FE11. That's not including the two year exile or the war itself. The fact that Fate took a shit on Marth and chose him to find the Falchion, receive the Fire Emblem, collect all the orbs, and defeat Gharnef...to hopefully avoid bringing Medus back. Except he did. So now he has to be resealed. And whilst canonically no one important dies (no one with names anyway unless it was mandated for plot reasons), I'm sure Marth's army consists of greater numbers than just the units we move around like chess pieces on a board...and a lot of them probably lost their lives during battle.
And for someone like Marth, who went from never experiencing that sort of thing to suddenly being in the very thick of it, that's a really hard pill to swallow. It's almost completely unfair that he's gone through so much in so little time.
Actually it IS completely unfair. Marth didn't ask for this. No one did.
Losing his father was bad enough but don't forget that Cain was the only one who made it out of there alive. We don't know how many lives were lost in that battle alone but it was probably a not small amount. There was the decoy to help Marth escape Altea and Marth was so worried that Frey (the decoy) would perish all for him. The thought of anyone dying in his name made him feel awful.
Marth more or less ended up losing everything: his home, his family, and any sense of safety and security he may have had. Who could he trust after this when someone they never had any issue with ended up in some way corrupted by darkness and went down the path of destruction?
Marth was 14 when the prologue starts in FE11. He spent two years in Talys making him 16. That's still young but it's definitely not the age of a child. Marth's innocence, however, was completely shattered and his whole world as he knew it was gone.
That doesn't make Marth "weak". I feel like "weak" is too strong a word here in this translation too, as well as "fragile". The connotations we get from these words is different to what they imply in Japanese and that's what makes translation hard is the balancing act between being correct in your translation but also making it understandable to your audience. And because we never got an official translation...you kind of have to figure things out for yourself.
I wouldn't be surprised if mentally Marth is really struggling because here he is preparing to assume Altea's throne and marry the love of his life as rebuilding efforts are well underway...and the drums of war are playing in the distance. He's had essentially no time to even start healing from the war he pretty much just finished, and another one is about to start.
That's a heavy, heavy burden to place on his shoulders again, and so soon.
I can't blame him for having a really hard time coping with everything! And to top it all off he's about to be betrayed AGAIN, this time by another trusted ally, someone who helped win the last war, his kingdom is going to get fucked AGAIN, his sister will be kidnapped AGAIN...and the only one he'll know is safe is Caeda.
Marth definitely has some PTSD. It doesn't make him "crazy" and certainly not the kind of crazy that a decent amount of people made him out to be where he's borderline unhinged, but he's certainly very...troubled. Which commenters on that anon meme thread stated - he's got psychological damage and is sensitive. Marth canonically is quite compassionate especially when it comes to people he cares deeply about...
There is also this comment:
MyUnit is largely the reason why I don't like FE12 so much because MyUnit basically steals Marth's place in his own story, proclaims victory, and then lets Marth have all of the credit for it before disappearing into the shadows, never to be heard from again.
Which is an incredible disservice to Marth as a character. He ends up coming off as someone who is constantly second guessing himself, who can't make any decisions major or minor without checking with Chris first. It's an insult, in my opinion, and I'm glad that they didn't use a lot of that characterisation in later appearances from Marth because...yeaaaah. No thanks!
I never did the whole "Marth is a delicate little flower who needs to hide in the shadows (lol) whilst Big Strong Chris MyUnit does all of the fighting because Marth is too Fragile and Delicate to do so" characterisation because to me that's definitely not Marth and that's definitely not Marth the Hero-King. Just no. No no no. No. Absolutely not.
I have written Marth with psychological trauma and him trying to deal with the "after" of it, and though I didn't finish that fic (it was "My Sins Won't Leave Me"), it would've shown what would happen if Marth DIDN'T end up learning to cope in the aftermath of losing Caeda, winning the war (but not completely because he wasn't able to collect all of the orbs and thus wasn't able to fully seal Medeus), becoming Emperor because Nyna married him and not Hardin (and having to deal with Hardin's jealousy), and...yeah it would've culminated in some really awful coping mechanisms and it was planned to be a death fic so...
I might take another stab at it, but I'd have to completely rewrite it. Which might be fun! Considering how I characterise Marth NOW is different from how I did back then. Marth's characterisation is a lot more solid and that's because it's gotten more consistent in the years following FE12 and honestly I don't really base mine solely on canon (like I did back then) I largely go with Midorin's interpretation of Marth and then go from there. Hasn't failed me yet so why not keep doing it.
Why do people keep saying Marth is "crazy" in FE12? I'm just wondering. What kind of crazy? PTSD? Batshit crazy? Is the whole thing just exaggerated for humor in this community?
Definitely the "PTSD" kind of issue-problem, yeah.
The first comment quotes a fan translation of FE12's prologue:
From TheEnd's translation on the SerenesForest.net forum:
***
End of prologue 4 (rather literal translation):
[...]
Elice: Hero King... huh. It seems he's called that way by the people. However, the true Marth is a very fragile, easily hurt child.
MU: Lord Marth, weak...?
Elice: Yes. Indeed, that child faced Medeus in the last battle and won. That child has grand ideals, and a strong will to hold those ideals. However, as you know, you can't save anyone in the real world with just ideals.
MU: Yes...
Elice: As we speak, people may be losing their lives right now in places we could seldom imagine... Marth cannot save them.
MU: But... no matter how great a king might be, he is no god. He isn't almighty. As a human, there's a limit to what he can do.
Elice: Indeed, that's how it is. Usually, people take note of reality and make compromises between that reality and their ideals. However, that child cannot do this... he wants to save everyone, from the bottom of his heart. In the war, if even one of his companions fall... that's very hard for him to stand. He controls it with his powerful will, but his heart is hurt and bleeds as result.
MU: ...
Elice: It's very difficult for that child to keep holding those ideals in this harsh world... MU, if you're to become a knight... please, protect that child. Protect his ideals...
***
Make of that what you will. Certainly doesn't sound positive for a young adult on the verge of getting married.
Now if you remember me from...the days where I was active in Archanea (and how much I disliked FE12 because of the whole MyUnit thing), you'll maybe remember how much ire this exchange between Elice and Chris (MU) brought me. It is a very, VERY literal translation from Japanese, and thus hasn't gone through any sort of "localisation process" like the official releases have. Taking this as it is, it makes Marth out to be some guy who can't function and acts like a child. That he can't handle reality as it is presented. Sounds like he can't handle being the commander of his own kingdom's military, let alone be king.
Elice brings up that this "child" (the literal translation - if this were to be officially translated it would probably be changed to something closer to the meaning they're trying to convey, like "someone who is so young/too young to go through this sort of thing") wants to save everyone, that is his deepest wish. That he can't handle all too well whenever one of his own falls in battle, but he is able to keep himself in check enough to not, I guess, burst into tears and have some kind of breakdown...?
I can't really get a handle on what Elice's tone is supposed to be here. Informative? A cautionary tale? It's almost like she's talking down when it comes to Marth. Marth is so young, too young in some aspects, to have gone through all of the shit that he's gone through and it's not beyond the pale to see Marth having difficulties in coming to terms with everything and everyone he's lost during the first war.
It's realistic that Marth would struggle with all of this. The fact that he was betrayed by a close ally, his kingdom was invaded and completely overrun, his father was killed in battle and his mother taken prisoner (to be killed in a violent manner later), and his sister was kidnapped by Gharnef to be used to resurrect the Shadow Dragon Medeus. And that's just the prologue for FE11. That's not including the two year exile or the war itself. The fact that Fate took a shit on Marth and chose him to find the Falchion, receive the Fire Emblem, collect all the orbs, and defeat Gharnef...to hopefully avoid bringing Medus back. Except he did. So now he has to be resealed. And whilst canonically no one important dies (no one with names anyway unless it was mandated for plot reasons), I'm sure Marth's army consists of greater numbers than just the units we move around like chess pieces on a board...and a lot of them probably lost their lives during battle.
And for someone like Marth, who went from never experiencing that sort of thing to suddenly being in the very thick of it, that's a really hard pill to swallow. It's almost completely unfair that he's gone through so much in so little time.
Actually it IS completely unfair. Marth didn't ask for this. No one did.
Losing his father was bad enough but don't forget that Cain was the only one who made it out of there alive. We don't know how many lives were lost in that battle alone but it was probably a not small amount. There was the decoy to help Marth escape Altea and Marth was so worried that Frey (the decoy) would perish all for him. The thought of anyone dying in his name made him feel awful.
Marth more or less ended up losing everything: his home, his family, and any sense of safety and security he may have had. Who could he trust after this when someone they never had any issue with ended up in some way corrupted by darkness and went down the path of destruction?
Marth was 14 when the prologue starts in FE11. He spent two years in Talys making him 16. That's still young but it's definitely not the age of a child. Marth's innocence, however, was completely shattered and his whole world as he knew it was gone.
he wants to save everyone, from the bottom of his heart. In the war, if even one of his companions fall... that's very hard for him to stand.
That doesn't make Marth "weak". I feel like "weak" is too strong a word here in this translation too, as well as "fragile". The connotations we get from these words is different to what they imply in Japanese and that's what makes translation hard is the balancing act between being correct in your translation but also making it understandable to your audience. And because we never got an official translation...you kind of have to figure things out for yourself.
I wouldn't be surprised if mentally Marth is really struggling because here he is preparing to assume Altea's throne and marry the love of his life as rebuilding efforts are well underway...and the drums of war are playing in the distance. He's had essentially no time to even start healing from the war he pretty much just finished, and another one is about to start.
That's a heavy, heavy burden to place on his shoulders again, and so soon.
I can't blame him for having a really hard time coping with everything! And to top it all off he's about to be betrayed AGAIN, this time by another trusted ally, someone who helped win the last war, his kingdom is going to get fucked AGAIN, his sister will be kidnapped AGAIN...and the only one he'll know is safe is Caeda.
Marth definitely has some PTSD. It doesn't make him "crazy" and certainly not the kind of crazy that a decent amount of people made him out to be where he's borderline unhinged, but he's certainly very...troubled. Which commenters on that anon meme thread stated - he's got psychological damage and is sensitive. Marth canonically is quite compassionate especially when it comes to people he cares deeply about...
There is also this comment:
He's not nuts, at least in anything that's been translated so far. OTOH, he's really undercut by the presence of MyUnit-- consulting MyUnit on all his decisions, and even having some decisions that were his in FE3 be MyUnit's brainwaves in FE12. As a game mechanic, I guess it's kind of like the Tactician in FE7. In terms of the script, though... well, Marth isn't Lyn or Eliwood. He's a veteran army commander who already fought and won battles in some of those exact places. Having him defer constantly to the judgment of a newbie knight/self-insert just makes his characterization very weird.
MyUnit is largely the reason why I don't like FE12 so much because MyUnit basically steals Marth's place in his own story, proclaims victory, and then lets Marth have all of the credit for it before disappearing into the shadows, never to be heard from again.
Which is an incredible disservice to Marth as a character. He ends up coming off as someone who is constantly second guessing himself, who can't make any decisions major or minor without checking with Chris first. It's an insult, in my opinion, and I'm glad that they didn't use a lot of that characterisation in later appearances from Marth because...yeaaaah. No thanks!
I never did the whole "Marth is a delicate little flower who needs to hide in the shadows (lol) whilst Big Strong Chris MyUnit does all of the fighting because Marth is too Fragile and Delicate to do so" characterisation because to me that's definitely not Marth and that's definitely not Marth the Hero-King. Just no. No no no. No. Absolutely not.
I have written Marth with psychological trauma and him trying to deal with the "after" of it, and though I didn't finish that fic (it was "My Sins Won't Leave Me"), it would've shown what would happen if Marth DIDN'T end up learning to cope in the aftermath of losing Caeda, winning the war (but not completely because he wasn't able to collect all of the orbs and thus wasn't able to fully seal Medeus), becoming Emperor because Nyna married him and not Hardin (and having to deal with Hardin's jealousy), and...yeah it would've culminated in some really awful coping mechanisms and it was planned to be a death fic so...
I might take another stab at it, but I'd have to completely rewrite it. Which might be fun! Considering how I characterise Marth NOW is different from how I did back then. Marth's characterisation is a lot more solid and that's because it's gotten more consistent in the years following FE12 and honestly I don't really base mine solely on canon (like I did back then) I largely go with Midorin's interpretation of Marth and then go from there. Hasn't failed me yet so why not keep doing it.